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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Hello, I am the chairman of the RM8 Club. As is well documented RM8 (VLT8) was completed in 1958 and appeared at the Commercial Motor Show in that year.
Unfortunately, the DVLA insist that the bus was manufactured in 1962 (which was the date of first registration by LT) and therefore requires an MOT which would not apply if the 1958 date was accepted. I have sent them copious amounts of detailed extracts from books, magazines etc referring to the 1958 build date & the RMOOA have also written to them but they steadfastly refuse to accept any of the material as evidence.

My question is this, do the AEC manufacturing records exist relating to this vehicle as it seems that these are the only evidence that the DVLA will accept?

I hope that you may be able to assist us in convincing the DVLA that the bus was indeed built in 1958.

Many thanks

Paul Tarrant
RM8 Club


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:59 am 
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Try the Leyland Museum - their archivist was able to provide me build sheets for my former RAF Mercury tractor unit so as to prove to the DVLA the date of manufacture.
Philip Platt


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:54 am 
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Other than being correct about its true date of first use, I completely fail to see what is of such concern. Apart from the actual test fee for a MOT and perhaps the time required to present it for examination, what difference does it make whether it has to be tested or not? You surely intend to keep the vehicle in fully roadworthy condition?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:14 pm 
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CAV551 , Of course we ensure that the vehicle is fully roadworthy at all times; I fail to see how you suspect otherwise. The issue here is that the vehicle registration document states a date of manufacture in 1962 and not 1958. Having a correct date of manufacture is fundamental to the history of the bus. The DVLA already have 2 different dates in their records neither of which is correct so even more need to get the correct date recorded. The law states that a vehicle manufactured before 1960 does not require an MOT, irrespective of whether the owner wishes to submit the vehicle for a test, and some MOT stations have been said to refuse to undertake an MOT on such a vehicle. We are proud that RM8 was the first pre-production Routemaster and that it appeared at the Commercial Motor Show in Nov 1958 which the DVLA seem determined to dispute.


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:27 pm 
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RM 8 was mentioned in a discussion about this very topic on an RM Forum. With RMs it's a very grey area!!

As it says "manufactured before 1/1/60" how would it work for RMs? What defines manufactured?
RMs up to RM 188 were delivered to Aldenham before 1/1/60 so were "manufactured" and registered, but not licensed. RM 8 was not delivered until 7/3/61. You could argue a number of other RMs were manufactured before that date 189 and 190 for example must have been manufactured before 1//1/60 as that was the date of delivery to Aldenham.


The rule is "manufactured before" as you say, which is being taken to mean registered. Problem with RM 8 is it wasn't delivered to LT until 7/3/61, it remained on trade plates although having been allocated the VLT 8 plate, until its entry into service 29/3/76. Unlike a lot of the other experimental buses at Chiswick it was not used in public service.

Not sure if you have this, but there is a photo of RM 8 at the Commercial Motor Show in 1958 here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aceanorak/8657713380/

It also says that the photo comes from Alan Townsin's history of Park Royal vol. 2 published 1980.Page 105.

Our understanding of the rule is if you can prove that RM 8 was manufactured before 1/1/61, ( not registered) which these photos clearly demonstrate it was, then it's exempt!


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:01 am 
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Hi Brian, Thanks for your reply. Interesting that you quote the 7/3/1961 delivery date, this I was not aware of, but it adds yet another date to the story.

The Motor Show photo & extract from the book were given to the DVLA along with copious amounts of other published evidence all of which has been rejected as not acceptable. The Leyland museum are currently assisting us in our quest to get the date of manufacture corrected, but it appears that the DVLA are determined not to accept that the bus was manufactured pre-1960. It seems from, what the museum say, that the DVLA are doing all they can to defy the new legislation. Our experience would seem to support this view.

I have also e-mailed Greg Knight MP, All Party Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Group, to see if they can help but had no reply to date.

The saga continues.

Paul


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Sounds daft to me on the part of the DVLA, the proof of its manufacture is irrefutable and published not photo-shopped!!
The date of delivery from AEC to LT is correct and shown on the Variation in Rolling Stock for that date (7/3/61). Interestingly, it's described as experimental vehicle into stock and put in the Non Effective (Non operational) fleet. Good luck

Brian


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 5:27 pm 
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Thanks for the evidence of transfer into LT stock. Another gap in our history of RM8 plugged.

Paul


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:32 pm 
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Success!! After intervention by David Hurley & also the London Bus Museum the DVLA have finally agreed RM8's date of manufacture to be 1958. They have sent us a fresh V5c document with a covering letter stating that 1958 is accepted. However the V5C still quotes 1962!!! Subsequent to yet another 'phone call another corrected V5 is on its way. The vehicle identification has also been amended back from A8 to RM8 (which it was until the DVLA changed it last year).

Paul


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